Ben Greenfield: Should You STOP Using Plant Medicines? Wisdom on Microdosing, The Muscle of Faith + How to Grow Your Spiritual Strength

Aug 16, 2022

God doesn't want you to use drugs to interact with the spiritual world. The reason for that is it's very easy to put your faith in being able to have God or the gods at your beck and call, being able to divine, being able to experience God but not ever truly know God, being able to experience a deep spiritual awakening but never actually go through the blood, sweat, tears, and the hard work that develops true spiritual enlightenment. - Ben Greenfield

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Wellness + Wisdom Episode 462

Health Consultant, Speaker, and New York Times bestselling author of 17 books, Ben Greenfield, joins Josh Trent on the Wellness + Wisdom Podcast to share why he's no longer using plant medicines + the moral obligation he feels to share it with the world, to explore the special circumstances for using plant medicine and to explain why + how you should go about plant medicine with caution and with the right ceremonial set up, environment, and shaman.

For any human being on a spiritual or faith path, should you stop using plant medicines?

By the end of this episode, you will have a deep intelligence around the clarification of what exactly plant medicines are for human beings and how they connect us to spiritual dimensions + higher consciousness.

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Listen To Episode 462 As Ben Greenfield Uncovers:

[1:30] How Plant Medicines Connect Us with the Spiritual Dimension

• Ben Greenfield
• Listen to: Ben Greenfield Life Podcasts
• Why I Am No Longer Going to Be Using Plant Medicines: Part 1 - The Big Problem With “Plant Medicines”
• Part 2 - Why I Am No Longer Going to Be Using Plant Medicines: The Big Problem With “Plant Medicines”
• CHEK Institute
• How To Eat, Move, & Be Healthy by Paul Chek
• Paul Chek on Wellness + Wisdom Podcast
• RUNGA 
• Ben's background and how his wellness journey has shifted over the years.
• What he means when he says he's no longer doing or supporting plant medicines and clarifying which ones.
• The history of plant medicines and the use of them for spiritual and religious activities.
• How plant medicines can connect us with a spiritual dimension as it shifts our consciousness.
• The profound spiritual experiences former atheists experience that has caused them to change their views on God and the universe.
• Which specific plant medicines and environments Ben is warning his listeners against especially when there is no supervision.
• The great deal of influence that we open ourselves up to for spiritual entities when we do go on a plant medicine journey.
• The New York Magazine podcast series, Cover Story | Power Trip on how rife the plant medicine industry is with the financial power to take advantage of others.
• Cover Story | Power Trip by New York Magazine
• Why it's so important to do your research and be careful of which plant medicine experience and shaman you select.

[15:45] The Big Warning about Plant Medicines from God

• Onnit
• 123 Aubrey Marcus – Own The Day
• 196. Aubrey Marcus: Owning The Day, Open Relationships, & Skipping Breakfast?
• Josh's own dark experience with Ayahuasca at a center in Costa Rica.
• How Ben's experience with God shifted during the plant medicine ceremonies.
• Their experience at RUNGA together recently and the research that Ben was doing on spirituality at the time.
• RUNGA
• Ben's spiritual workout each morning with breathwork, reading the Bible, using essential oils, and spending quiet time alone.
• BREATHE: Breath and Wellness
• How reading various bible verses about pharmakeia over and over led to Ben spending a lot of time reflecting on the word.
• What is pharmakeia in the Bible?
• Paul Chek | All is God
• The amazing experiences Ben has had with plant medicine and the spiritual dimension which has brought him great love, light, and answers.
• Why there is a big warning flag from God about using psychedelics and plant medicine to interact with the spiritual world.
• Ben's belief about why God would include plants like psilocybin or Ayahuasca on our planet for our good but we have abused them.
• Aldous Huxley
• Aleister Crowley
• Timothy Leary
• Plants of the Gods Podcast: S3E5 -  Mushrooms, Magic, Medicine and Mortality: Paul Stamets in Conversation with Dr. Mark Plotkin
• Carl Jung: BEWARE OF UNEARNED WISDOM | Explained by Jordan B Peterson
• Carl Jung
• Why it is so tempting to want to use plant medicine as a quick hack for enlightenment without actually doing the real inner work first.

[26:00] Finding God: Climbing Your Own Mountain of Spirituality + Why There's No Shortcut

• Why Ben believes that he has never had a bad plant medicine ceremony experience because of God's protection and his spiritual practices.
• The lack of knowledge out there about using plant medicine responsibly that Ben is worried about.
• Ben Greenfield - Extreme Endurance | London Real
• SILENCE VIA PSILOCYBIN - Ben Greenfield on London Real
• How to climb your own mountain of spirituality and why there are no shortcuts.
• Unpacking how to build a relationship with God and learning to understand what it is.
• Exploring the dark and the light in our world and in religion.
• How you can have moments with God such as journaling or spending time in nature without leaning toward drugs.
• What Gnosticism is and why Gnostics believed there was this secret knowledge and way to God that was only accessible to certain people compared to Jesus with his message of salvation, love, happiness, and the access to God being totally free and available for everyone.
• Ben's recent exploration of asking himself this, "Do I want to be the guy who tells people that to access God, you have to be able to afford a trip to Peru to do Ayahuasca or go to a ketamine clinic?"
• Why Josh chose to delete a lot of content on the Wellness Force Media channels about plant medicine from his visit to a place in Costa Rica.
• Josh's experience with a dark entity from a plant medicine ceremony in Costa Rica and how Paul Chek helped him heal it.
• Living 4D with Paul Chek: EP 115 — Josh Trent: All is God

[35:45] The Dark + Light Side of Plant Medicine

• 437 Josh Trent | Death & Rebirth: Why I’m Saying Goodbye to Wellness Force…
• 390 Hamilton Souther | Plant Medicine: The Dark & The Light
• Wetiko: Healing the Mind-Virus That Plagues Our World by Paul Levy
• Our relationship with God and plant medicine and why it is not the way for a person to grow their faith.
• Why one must do plant medicine with caution if they're seeking the spiritual dimension because these spirits can do with you what they please.
• Certain scenarios where Ben believes plant medicine is appropriate including with your partner.
• How to create an environment with the right container and intention to speak to God through a plant medicine experience alone.
• What using small doses of plant medicine like Psilocybin or MDMA can look like for someone.
• How higher doses of plant medicine can be used during couple's therapy, supervised trauma therapy, or end-of-life therapy.
• Alexander Theodore "Sasha" Shulgin
• Why some people are turning towards synthetic plant medicines and psychedelics.

[45:15] Life Lessons We Learn from God

• Exploring where intention comes from - the heart or the ego?
• Ben's experience sensing a dark energy present in the room during a plant medicine experience.
• Why I Am No Longer Going to Be Using Plant Medicines: Part 1 - The Big Problem With “Plant Medicines”
• Part 2 - Why I Am No Longer Going to Be Using Plant Medicines: The Big Problem With “Plant Medicines”
• The message and wish Ben has for his twin sons and their experience with God whether it's through plant medicine or not.
• Why we have to accept that sometimes terrible things like Josh's dark entity will happen but then we have the chance to teach people about them.
• Our free will nature and the desire that we have to create because we have been made in the image of God.
• What lessons we can learn from God, both positive and negative ones.

[56:20] Three Key Pieces of Soul Wisdom

• Endure: Tools, Tactics, and Habits for Spiritual Stamina by Ben Greenfield
• Disney and Pixar’s Soul | Official Trailer
• The most important pieces of wisdom that Ben pulled from the movie, Soul, that he included in his book, Endure.
• Why the movie, Soul, means so much to both Ben and Josh.
• C.S. Lewis
• Ben's spark to live a simple yet extraordinary life and what that looks like for him.
• How you are indeed positively helping and changing the world even if it's as simple as just loving one person because that is an infinite gift that goes on for all of eternity.
• The effects of melatonin and how it's similar to a spiritual awakening process.
• What he has learned about society and why we're not inherently good when left to our own volition as we make a lot of bad mistakes and hurt others.
• Why we are all capable of love and being good but we cannot do it all on our own.
• How Ben stays sustainable in his own spiritual growth.
• Why turning to a higher power can bring people so much hope because then they know that they are not alone.

[1:07:25] The 3 Biggest Rocks for Spiritual Connection

• Fibonacci's sequence
• Exploring proof that a God or Higher Power does exist compared to the lack of proof that it doesn't.
• Why you need absolutely nothing to be able to commune with God; not plant medicines, not a priest, not a church, an institution, or a specific religion.
• His family's belief that love does cover all and any disputes and arguments need to be set aside with one another.
• Unpacking why you were made for a reason and do have a purpose.
• How to avoid the 'grass is always greener' syndrome and compare your purpose to other people living theirs.
• How To Find Your Purpose In Life. - Ben Greenfield Fitness
• Why you should never underestimate your special skills and what you're able to do in this world.
• How to come familiar with what you're good at and then without shame take that and run with it, not in the spirit of monetizing it, but with love.

[1:13:30] How Prayers Can be Answered + Sometimes Are Not

• Why your heart first has to be in the right place and with pure intention when you commune with God about your wishes and desires.
• Ben's prayers for years to God to help heal his gut issues and how that health experience led him to actually helping so many people with their own healing process.
• How his health issues keep him humble knowing that his body is not perfect.
• Why prayers, like the ones he made for his gut health, are sometimes not answered directly because God knows that another purpose needs to be served,  you need something better or you need to be praying for something different.
• The fact that some people pray but they don't truly believe and that hinders the process.
• How God makes plans for us in ways that we cannot fathom and things will play out in a process that we never expected.
• Why we need to thank God now for the very thing that we desire compared to coming from a place of scarcity.
• How Ben defines wellness and living life well.
• Why freedom is also being vulnerable and how Ben has navigated his own shadow self and ego.
• 405 Tim Corcoran | Vision Quest: How To Find Your Place In The Ecology of Life, Purpose Mountain & Spiritual Courage

Power Quotes From The Show

Sustainable Spiritual Growth

"By the nature of me knowing and acknowledging that I'm not good, that I can't do it all on my own, that I need God's help, it's incredibly humbling. To be able to be on my knees each morning and say to God, 'I give everyone and everything to you. I can't do this on my own. I can't be good on my own nor be the father and husband I want to be on my own. Although this might sound like the total polar opposite of a positive affirmation, I'm a fallen creature and I would commit great evil if I were left all alone to myself; I know it...'

...However, there is this great confidence that despite all of that, I am loved unconditionally and have been offered a rescue line that is free so that all I have to do is rely upon the grace of God and his love to be able to help me be as good as I can be. I think knowing that gives great hope because then you know that you don't have to do it all on your own. You can rely upon a higher power to be the person that you want to be in this life." - Ben Greenfield

Loving the World Through Your Purpose

"You were made for a reason and you just have to unlock it. You have a planned divine purpose and it's so easy to experience the "grass is always greener" syndrome especially in a world with social media. It's so simple to look at other people living their purpose; they're a doctor or an architect or a gardener and then you find yourself comparing your life to theirs but never underestimate your unique skill set and the things that come easy to you because that's how you can love the world the most. You just have to intimately become familiar with what it is that you're good at and then unashamedly run with it in the spirit of not monetizing it but loving with it. Find your purpose and know that you never have to be ashamed of that purpose." - Ben Greenfield

The Appropriate Path to God

"In my own plant medicine experiences, they have only ever been about light, love, and spiritual enlightenment. Many former atheists that I have spoken to that have participated in plant medicine have been able to come and know God through ceremony. Plant medicines can be a path to God but it is not THE path; it is not the appropriate path to God. The reason for that is you can go in protected with positive energy plus the right environment and know that you can trust the shaman but it's really just playing with fire...

...That's why God has warned us about pharmakeia in the bible because he knew how attractive it was and how much of a train wreck it would cause in the end or how much of a displaced trust it would cause for people to put their faith and reliance upon how they could become spiritually enlightened in anything other than the free act of just leaving their burden at the foot of the cross, thanking Jesus, and living in grace." - Ben Greenfield

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Links From Today's Show 

• Listen to: Ben Greenfield Life Podcasts
• Why I Am No Longer Going to Be Using Plant Medicines: Part 1 - The Big Problem With “Plant Medicines”
• Part 2 - Why I Am No Longer Going to Be Using Plant Medicines: The Big Problem With “Plant Medicines”
• CHEK Institute
• How To Eat, Move, & Be Healthy by Paul Chek
• Paul Chek on Wellness + Wisdom Podcast
• RUNGA 
• Cover Story | Power Trip by New York Magazine
• Onnit
• 123 Aubrey Marcus – Own The Day
• 196. Aubrey Marcus: Owning The Day, Open Relationships, & Skipping Breakfast?
• What is pharmakeia in the Bible?
• Paul Chek | All is God
• Aldous Huxley
• Aleister Crowley
• Timothy Leary
• Plants of the Gods Podcast: S3E5 -  Mushrooms, Magic, Medicine and Mortality: Paul Stamets in Conversation with Dr. Mark Plotkin
• Carl Jung: BEWARE OF UNEARNED WISDOM | Explained by Jordan B Peterson
• Carl Jung
• Ben Greenfield - Extreme Endurance | London Real
• SILENCE VIA PSILOCYBIN - Ben Greenfield on London Real
• Living 4D with Paul Chek: EP 115 — Josh Trent: All is God
• 437 Josh Trent | Death & Rebirth: Why I’m Saying Goodbye to Wellness Force…
• 390 Hamilton Souther | Plant Medicine: The Dark & The Light
• Wetiko: Healing the Mind-Virus That Plagues Our World by Paul Levy
• Alexander Theodore "Sasha" Shulgin
• Endure: Tools, Tactics, and Habits for Spiritual Stamina by Ben Greenfield
• Disney and Pixar’s Soul | Official Trailer
• C.S. Lewis
• Fibonacci's sequence
• How To Find Your Purpose In Life. - Ben Greenfield Fitness
• 405 Tim Corcoran | Vision Quest: How To Find Your Place In The Ecology of Life, Purpose Mountain & Spiritual Courage
• Religio
• Roots of ‘Religion’
• Shop the Wellness Force Store
• breathwork.io
• Paleovalley – Save 15% on your ACV Complex with the code ‘JOSH'
• Seeking Health - Save 10% with the code 'JOSH'
• Organifi – Special 20% off to our listeners with the code ‘WELLNESSFORCE'
• Drink LMNT – Zero Sugar Hydration: Get your free LMNT Sample Pack, you only cover the cost of shipping
• Botanic Tonics – Save 40% when you use the code ‘WELLNESS40'
• Essential Oil Wizardry: Save 10% with the code 'WELLNESSFORCE'
• Cured Nutrition – Get 15% off of your order when you visit wellnessforce.com/cured + use the code ‘WELLNESSFORCE'
• M21 Wellness Guide
• Wellness Force Community
• Leave Wellness Force a review on iTunes
• Ben Greenfield
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About Ben Greenfield

Ben Greenfield is a health consultant, speaker, and New York Times bestselling author of 17 books, including the widely popular titles Beyond Training, Boundless, Fit Soul, Spiritual Disciplines Journal, the Boundless Cookbook and Endure. A former collegiate tennis, water polo and volleyball player, bodybuilder, 13-time Ironman triathlete and professional obstacle course racer, Ben has been voted by the NSCA as America’s top Personal Trainer and by Greatist as one of the top 100 Most Influential People In Health And Fitness.

Ben's Wellness Background

A frequent contributor to health and wellness publications and websites and a highly sought-after speaker, Ben’s understanding of functional exercise, nutrition, and the delicate balance between performance and health has helped thousands of people around the world achieve their goals and improve their quality of life–from high-level CEOs to soccer moms to professional athletes and beyond. Ben also seeks to teach and inspire people to fully experience and joyfully savor all of God’s creation while optimizing their physical health.

Work with Ben

Via online, phone, e-mail and in-person consulting, Ben coaches and trains individuals all over the world for health, longevity, and performance. He also works with individuals, corporations, and teams for body and brain performance enhancement, and specializes in performance, fat loss, digestion, brain, sleep, hormone, anti-aging, parenting, relationships, spiritual fitness, smart drugs, nootropics, and overall wellness for achieving an optimized life.

Ben's Mission

Ben Greenfield’s mission is to serve those who, like himself, desire to live life to the fullest. To experience deep meaning, purpose, happiness, fulfillment, and connection. Explore and enjoy every nook and cranny of God’s great creation, and discover how to achieve full optimization of mind, body, and spirit with boundless energy.

Ben resides in Spokane, Washington with his wife, Jessa, and twin boys, River and Terran. There he enjoys swinging kettlebells, fiction, guitar, ukulele, spearfishing, bowhunting, plant foraging, cooking and savoring all of God’s creation